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August 31, 2008

Comments

Chris

I don't agree with you much, John, but on this score I'm with you 100%. We can't be running against George Bush, we have to run against the GOP and against McCain. The GOP has been running congress 12 out of the last 14 years, and the White House for the last 8 years - and see where it got us! The GOP has been a disaster, and THAT is what we need to be saying.

John Petty

Actually Chris, you and I agree on just about everything, except for one.

gormenghast

And the two years of a Democrat held congress has rendered what? A lower approval rating than the worst President in history.

Disrespecting Bill Clinton's record in favour of Reagan's, his cowardly FISA vote, his VP pick, his disdain for 52% of the electorate, his failure to rein in his supporters (too late now), brown shirt tactics at the caucuses and the convention have already lost this election for Obama. McCain has him boxed in on all sides, he has nowhere to go and the republicans haven't even started. My guess October 10th - when Obama becomes so yesterday.

Sound bitter, you bet, and I've never even seen a gun.

John Petty

Right now, I'd say "advantage McCain."

Joel

I admit that I would have been excited with either Obama or Hillary - both I think represent well... and I also admit that I am not a party insider, but from one who has watched the campaign closely I think neither campagin did a "clean" campaign and as much as it might be true that Obama's camp did
"Disrespecting Bill Clinton's record in favour of Reagan's, his cowardly FISA vote, his VP pick, his disdain for 52% of the electorate, his failure to rein in his supporters (too late now), brown shirt tactics at the caucuses..."

Couldn't you also say that the Clinton camp "Disrespected Obama in favour of McCain, her "cowardly" perhaps, refusal at least during the early part of the campaign to make a stand on the war, her loyalists insistence that she had to be the VP, her disdain for 48% of Democrats" etc....

And while I think one could easily make an arguement of whether Obama would have won the nomination if he was caucasian - I think the truth is that the fact that he is not at least 15 points ahead in any poll has more to due with the color of his skin than any strife within the Democratic party. I think it is the elephant in the room, even within the room of this blog. As a small point of reference I bring offer my father in law who lives in Ohio - life long member of the carpenter union, life long Democrat. His comment on Friday, "The aint no g#dd@mn way I am voting for a black man!"

Joel

John Petty

Correction: Hillary voters did not "insist" on anything, and couldn't even if they wanted to. My view is that that is the winning ticket. Frankly, as a Hillary supporter, I'm not sure I'd have favored her taking it, even if offered. I continue to think, however, that picking Hillary would have wrapped the thing up.

As to the racial issue, my next door neighbor, who is black, said the same thing just yesterday. It's a factor, no question, but I hope it doesn't afflict a large portion of the electorate. I'd guess 5-10% if I had to guess.

lillianjane

No, Joel, I couldn't say that, and still be accurate.
I don't think that many die-hard racists would vote for a white Democrat, either.

Hypatia

***** her loyalists insistence that she had to be the VP, her disdain for 48% of Democrats" etc....*****

If Clinton had won the nomination, what do you think would have been the reaction of the Obama supporters if her campaign had blown him off as a VP candidate, failed to reach out to his fundraisers, and told his voters, in effect, that they had nowhere else to go?

This wouldn't have happened, of course, because Hillary Clinton would have known better. Barring some awful dark secret in his past, Obama would have been the VP and the party united.

gormenghast

What Hypatia and lillianjane said. I did not, like many Clinton supporters want her to accept the VP slot.

However that said, since everything else was a sham, why not have a sham vetting process. The clumsy statement from camp Obama that "we looked at Hillary, but felt it was not a comfortable fit" Throw some crumbs why don't you? RoeRoeRoe crumbs are getting really stale and cheesy.

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